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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2013.03.28 13:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why is it that the naga, which is the most used, is also being the least changed? |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Also why do the talos and nado have so much more mass than the naga and oracle? |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Also why do the talos and nado have so much more mass than the naga and oracle? To get the desired speeds and align times.
And why is it desirable that the ships used by small gangs get more mass than the mass nagas fielded by everyone? |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:Also why do the talos and nado have so much more mass than the naga and oracle? They way their mass vs agility was setup originally is definitely unusual, but there didn't seem to be a good reason to rework it all at this point.
I thought the whole point of this was reworking stuff 
But why is the blob naga being left unchanged? |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Here is an idea: Just stop the ships from fitting the large long range weapon systems. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dysphonia Fera wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Here is an idea: Just stop the ships from fitting the large long range weapon systems. That is a bad idea
Why? The main problem is artynado and rail naga fleets |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dysphonia Fera wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Dysphonia Fera wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Here is an idea: Just stop the ships from fitting the large long range weapon systems. That is a bad idea Why? The main problem is artynado and rail naga fleets How are they problems?
What fleets of tr3s do you see? You see artynados and railnagas. They can kill stuff from 200km away. They have extremely high alpha. 2 nagas on a gatecamp make it pretty much non-engageble in a cruiser, since they will kill a well tanked cruiser in about 30s (maybe up to 60s if they dont trust their tackle and do it from 200km instead of 100km), and can do this from almost anywhere on grid. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dysphonia Fera wrote:Is your argument that because people fly it, it needs nerfing? And that battlecruisers can kill cruisers?
Well hot damn son, colour me shocked.
Im saying people fly them because they are overpowered and take far more effort to deal with than to use.
And bcs killing cruisers is fine. Killing them in seconds from 200k is not. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dysphonia Fera wrote:spoiler: you might need to learn how to do things other than just burn at things with your mwd on
Yes, this is how kiting works, you approach f1 with mwd on 
|
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dysphonia Fera wrote:Are you trying to demonstrate what hyperbole is?
Go ahead and eft it, since I know you never fight a gatecamp outnumbered. A properly fit naga can do betwee 300 and 750 dps from between 70 and 200k, against a caracal burning completely perpendicular.
A well tanked caracal has around 25k ehp. 2 Nagas are doing between 600 and 1500 dps. Thats about 15-40s of on-field time |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bagehi wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Dysphonia Fera wrote:Is your argument that because people fly it, it needs nerfing? And that battlecruisers can kill cruisers?
Well hot damn son, colour me shocked. Im saying people fly them because they are overpowered and take far more effort to deal with than to use. And bcs killing cruisers is fine. Killing them in seconds from 200k is not. If their scan res were reduced, it would give lighter fleets the opportunity to warp off when a sniper tier 3 BC fleets landed at range. Other than that, I don't see a big deal. Attack BCs sniping BSs and/or caps from long range looks like working as intended to me.
So your proposed counter to a rail naga blob is "run"? |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:
Seriously, you appear to be arguing that a Naga shouldn't be able to hit a cruiser as it approaches from 200 km. Actually it probably can't if you'd bothered to bring the right tool for the job - TDs or RSDs.
Im not assuming approach, im assuming maximal transversal with completely perpendicular velocity. This is pretty hard to do in-game and also means you dont actually close distance on the naga, ever.
A caracal cant damp or TD a naga from 100k, let alone 200k. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2013.03.28 14:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Gypsio III wrote:
Seriously, you appear to be arguing that a Naga shouldn't be able to hit a cruiser as it approaches from 200 km. Actually it probably can't if you'd bothered to bring the right tool for the job - TDs or RSDs.
A caracal cant damp or TD a naga from 100km Try fitting a sensor booster. Gives ~50% chance of a TD hit, or ~78% of a RSD hit, at 110 km.
So now you reduce your tank by 30% to reduce incoming dps by like 30% from a single ship.
Gud idea.
Also, if you read my post above, the caracal still takes 400 dps from the naga assuming the TD hits. Except now you have 1 less LSE and no web |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Akturous wrote:
Talos just does outclass every BC in a gang situation full stop.
This is the reason for all those talos doctrines you see. |
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